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	<title>Comments on: go [iv]</title>
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	<link>http://www.paradoxica.net/2006/02/02/go-iv/</link>
	<description>new media developer / urban nomad</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul Helms</title>
		<link>http://www.paradoxica.net/2006/02/02/go-iv/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Helms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2006 01:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Scott,

I like a lot of the stuff that you've put up here.  But I have to push your buttons a bit.

If we say that we are saved by grace, yet aren't complete until works are in the equation (as an outpouring of faith--sanctification) in order to agree with the obvious teaching of Scripture that we are created anew for good works, I feel like we're still missing something.  You say that "Consequently, if we fail to fulfill this purpose, this constitutes sin — a knowing and willful refusal to obey an edict of God."  You also seem to indicate that the whole picture of salvation is not entirely in view until works are added to the equation.

The concern I have here is with the focus on the self -- me, you, whomever -- and a defocusing on God's role in every aspect of our salvation.  I fear that we often create a dichotomy between the beginning of salvation and all of the afterthoughts, which may lead to the downplaying of the preaching of the Gospel for Christians and non-Christians alike.  God's grace effectually calls (John 6:44-46), brings us to repentance (Acts 11:18, Rom. 11:22), sanctifies (causing us to do good deeds, prepared for us before the creation of the world Eph. 2:10, Rev. 17:14), and secures our final dwelling in heaven's glory (Rom 8:30) before we can even do one thing at all--indeed, while we are still dead in our sins (Eph. 2:5, Col. 2:13, Eph. 1:3-10).  The image of salvation here is a complete one, one that has been purchased at the cross for God's people (His sheep--John 10) and applied through faith in the individual (also a gift of God, Eph. 2:8).  We are called to hold fast to this testimony, that Christ has died for our sins and intercedes for us in Heaven (Heb. 4:14-16, 10:23-25). By Scripture's standards, this is always the highest calling of the Christian--not to end hunger or poverty.  You'll notice that Paul often tacks on encouragement to 'spur one another to good deeds' after reminding Christians of their grace-given salvation. Thus, the truly effective admonition unto good works does not say -- 'look into yourself: work up a desire to help the poor,' but rather 'look to Jesus, call upon Him to give you a renewed heart that earnestly desires the good of others and loves unconditionally.'

Now, you may think I am being too particular on word choices that you've made and am just beating a dead horse.  You may agree with everything I've said.  The thing I fear most is that logically, one is likely to assume a Gospel of works-righteousness if one doesn't hold to God's wholly-efficient grace in stirring up our hearts in performing good deeds.  I say this because of the clear Scriptural teaching that those who don't persevere in faith, hope, and love will not enter the kingdom, nor will those who live immoral lives (Jude 1:17-25, Matt. 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13, Gal. 5:19-23, 1 Cor. 6:9-11).  If we are left to ourselves after our initial conversion, or even if God's grace works 'alongside' us, then we can no longer say that we are saved entirely by His grace.  In my many conversations with Mormons, this is the stumbling block which they trip over.  They cannot believe that their entire salvation is dependent only upon the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection.  Instead, they teach that God's grace is given to us after 'all we can do;' here 'all we can do' means trying to live a godly life.  Yet they will say that in the end, "We are saved by grace!  We are saved by Christ's death on the cross!"  Obviously, this is not the case.

Well, that's all for now.  I hope this finds you well.

Grace and Peace,
Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>I like a lot of the stuff that you&#8217;ve put up here.  But I have to push your buttons a bit.</p>
<p>If we say that we are saved by grace, yet aren&#8217;t complete until works are in the equation (as an outpouring of faith&#8211;sanctification) in order to agree with the obvious teaching of Scripture that we are created anew for good works, I feel like we&#8217;re still missing something.  You say that &#8220;Consequently, if we fail to fulfill this purpose, this constitutes sin — a knowing and willful refusal to obey an edict of God.&#8221;  You also seem to indicate that the whole picture of salvation is not entirely in view until works are added to the equation.</p>
<p>The concern I have here is with the focus on the self &#8212; me, you, whomever &#8212; and a defocusing on God&#8217;s role in every aspect of our salvation.  I fear that we often create a dichotomy between the beginning of salvation and all of the afterthoughts, which may lead to the downplaying of the preaching of the Gospel for Christians and non-Christians alike.  God&#8217;s grace effectually calls (John 6:44-46), brings us to repentance (Acts 11:18, Rom. 11:22), sanctifies (causing us to do good deeds, prepared for us before the creation of the world Eph. 2:10, Rev. 17:14), and secures our final dwelling in heaven&#8217;s glory (Rom 8:30) before we can even do one thing at all&#8211;indeed, while we are still dead in our sins (Eph. 2:5, Col. 2:13, Eph. 1:3-10).  The image of salvation here is a complete one, one that has been purchased at the cross for God&#8217;s people (His sheep&#8211;John 10) and applied through faith in the individual (also a gift of God, Eph. 2:8).  We are called to hold fast to this testimony, that Christ has died for our sins and intercedes for us in Heaven (Heb. 4:14-16, 10:23-25). By Scripture&#8217;s standards, this is always the highest calling of the Christian&#8211;not to end hunger or poverty.  You&#8217;ll notice that Paul often tacks on encouragement to &#8217;spur one another to good deeds&#8217; after reminding Christians of their grace-given salvation. Thus, the truly effective admonition unto good works does not say &#8212; &#8216;look into yourself: work up a desire to help the poor,&#8217; but rather &#8216;look to Jesus, call upon Him to give you a renewed heart that earnestly desires the good of others and loves unconditionally.&#8217;</p>
<p>Now, you may think I am being too particular on word choices that you&#8217;ve made and am just beating a dead horse.  You may agree with everything I&#8217;ve said.  The thing I fear most is that logically, one is likely to assume a Gospel of works-righteousness if one doesn&#8217;t hold to God&#8217;s wholly-efficient grace in stirring up our hearts in performing good deeds.  I say this because of the clear Scriptural teaching that those who don&#8217;t persevere in faith, hope, and love will not enter the kingdom, nor will those who live immoral lives (Jude 1:17-25, Matt. 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13, Gal. 5:19-23, 1 Cor. 6:9-11).  If we are left to ourselves after our initial conversion, or even if God&#8217;s grace works &#8216;alongside&#8217; us, then we can no longer say that we are saved entirely by His grace.  In my many conversations with Mormons, this is the stumbling block which they trip over.  They cannot believe that their entire salvation is dependent only upon the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection.  Instead, they teach that God&#8217;s grace is given to us after &#8216;all we can do;&#8217; here &#8216;all we can do&#8217; means trying to live a godly life.  Yet they will say that in the end, &#8220;We are saved by grace!  We are saved by Christ&#8217;s death on the cross!&#8221;  Obviously, this is not the case.</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s all for now.  I hope this finds you well.</p>
<p>Grace and Peace,<br />
Paul</p>
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